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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Oct 20, 2009 9:56:32 GMT -5
I'm going to offer help though here!
Some are having trouble getting the parts I've listed, but you must know the main part is the Negative ION Generator and that's very cheap compared to buying a commercial unit. The rest of the parts could be anything you come up with.
Some buyers are using things as simple as an old pringles chip can. some are making a flock tray instead of a cabinet using everything from a cardboard box to Dollar store totes and even a ice cream bucket using the basic wiring from our website and this forum. Others have used a electric fly swatter. what ever method you use the principle is the same. Charging flock fiber to stand on end- that's the easy part. The hard part would be finding an easy and affordable source of vintage color matched flock. Is our flock fiber perfect to every old faded out GI JOE??? No, but are bald patches better??? As least you could attempt coloring the vintage hair with a dry erase marker to match better.
I am learning all the dye/treatment/mix steps from our former flock guru and I do believe I can get an even better matching to at least 80% of the old faded Joe's out there. At this point I'm learning Blonde I already have the Brown and ebony under my belt. In the end I want to offer at least 3 different shades of each color. This along with the small mix packets should be enough to cover what ever repair comes our Flock Repair Kit buyers way.
Side note some are using our information for other things like Flocking Tee's and x-mas cards using fine .030 power flock. It's not just a GI JOE thing really. Once you've learned the method- you'll try flocking other things as I have. Note, Our vintage brown makes a great Grizzly bear color match. I've done a few and a black panther. Very nice.
Ray- Flock Man
Also: Don't be shy and become a member of our forum. It's easy and you get a chance for discounts!
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Oct 27, 2009 6:55:35 GMT -5
Q. I used to be able to see the other sections on this forum. now I can't what's up? A. you still can. either email us from our main website or sign up and become a member. I had to do it because of creepy posts that were being over looked. this way I can keep an eye on one topic where everyone can post. Main site: flockconcepts.tripod.com |
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Nov 1, 2009 13:45:45 GMT -5
Q. I checked out the forum and it seems pretty informative...I looked at the flocking gun that they show how to make but I really like the cabinet you show with the cool song! Any chance that some time soon you would offer instructions on how to make this particular cabinet version? It seems a lot less messy...plmk and cool forum A.I have a new set of cabinet parts and do plan to make a step by step (when I don’t really know for sure) It is pretty much the same steps as the hand held unit, but using the box as the hopper instead of the plastic storage container. The cabinet is based off the commercial flock cabinet which runs about $4000 to $6000. Granted the commercial version (which our former dye person has) looks fancy and runs from 3kV (3000 volts to 40,000 volts), but he never has to turn it past 7kV to flock a Joe head. As far as the screen in the commercial cabinet- our guy had removed his and used a chrome ball- which worked better so I used that idea in making the home made version. It seems the round ball as the electrode doesn’t allow the flock to get stuck in dead spots. For the same reason that I used a 45 degree angles on the ground plate- this way the flock has a hard time resting. An even better version would be a metal ball coming up through the bottom center of the box and the ground plate at 45’s all around it, but that is theory because I haven’t tested that. Q. What a McGoo ...I just found it.....the cabinet inst. You are wayyy ahead of me...I'm gonna get to building one and then I am gonna be ordering some flock to get all my heads repaired...oh one last thing which I am shure you already have on the forum...I wanted to know the best way to remove hair and the best glue to use...thanks again for this great opportunity and I will order some flock as soon as I build the cabinet. A. It’s not that hard really. At first look it looks like a task, but there are just basic things you need to know. The ball has a negative charge and when close enough to a grounded surface (but not too close or the charge will jump across like lighting) just close enough to create a charging field. The flock is treated to be non-charged and at most it’ll get a positive charge in the bag, which also works in a negative charge field. Since the head with the glue goes into the charge field the flock will align itself on end in the adhesive- so we get the buzz cut hair. It all kind of works like two magnets turned so they will not stick together and there is that resistance field in the middle. Best and safest way I would remove old glue would be alcohol either rubbing or denatured alcohol- this way it’ll be safer on the original paint. Boiling water works to soften the glue. On glues. I think of it like this- On a spot repair I would use either acrylic adhesive or a mixture of clear acrylic and Elmer’s craft glue, or a waterbased polyurethane which is what Hasbro used (well from purchasing orders they listed oil based and water based polyurethane as GI Joe glue) back in the day. On a full head reflock I would use a 30-minute or longer (work time) epoxy if your going to water dip the head at some point or a waterbased polyurethane and the others for heads that are going to be played with, but not tossed into the tub or water. Note many people want water proof heads, but they must know that the elastic cord holding Joe together is not water safe and will snap over time because of wet/dry then wet/dry. Also, some rivets, eye connectors, and hooks inside Joe will rust out. Q. I am leaning toward fabricating a box like yours...I have so many heads with missing hair. I wanted to know if the following answers can be found or will soon be found on your web-site. 1.How and what do I use to remove the glue off the old head? 2. Do you sell the epoxy or best adhesive recommended by you? 3.Are you able to get ahold of the ION generators? 4. The part that stumps me the most is...in the video with the flocking cabinet. You have the head attached to a wood dowel covered in electric tape...is there a metal rod inserted into the cavity of the head somehow via this tape covered dowel and if so where is the electrical connection from this dowel going to? (Hope that sentence makes sense!) In the video and the cabinet part section it makes no mention of this electric tape covered dowel nor does it show how this is connected to the cabinet unit. A. We are not selling the epoxy (because of price and shipping issues) Still waiting on the 30kV deal from China, but you can get the ion generators at: www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G1783or secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=327or if your technical (which I have done this, but it was a task because I’m not a electronics pro) www.imagesco.com/science/high-voltage/high_voltage_devices.htmlThe rod used is made of PVC tube with about 3 inches of wooden dowel in the end that fits inside Joes head. By accident I found that the PVC seemed to interact with the charge field and really makes the flock fly into the glued head without it being grounded. Most flockers clip a ground on Joes neck or work over a grounded something. I had only taped over the white PVC tube because over time the white looked messy for a video. The grounding is only to the plate and you turn the head around in the charging field moving around the box to the hot spots. Sometimes you may have to use a paint brush to toss the flock around then put Joes head back in and continue. The reason for this is, that after a while the flock will be charged and tend to stay still, not knowing what to do. A quick fluff of it and it’ll start jumping again. It’s a practice thing and you’ll learn it after a short while. Back when I started doing this I was making a hand held unit first and it worked great, but it was a lot of shaking and head turning. Then I watched a video of a silk rose being flocked in a reverse flocking cabinet. They dipped the rose in glue and within minutes it was flocked inside the cabinet. That’s when I switched my plans on what flock unit to use. Later I ran into a guy at a show in Pawtucket, RI who used a commercial version and that cemented the idea of the best way to flock Joes head. It’s just 100 times less messy and you use the maximum amount of flock without waste or getting flock in everything in you house. Odd thing is, when mixing and dying flock you need a mask, but once that generator goes on the flock gets charged and only wants to land on the ground or something grounded just like a ION air filter forces all the dust in a room to land on a table etc. All and all there are thousands of little tricks and probably one hundred thousand more to be found. In your practice you’ll find your way(s) of doing things. As stated somewhere in here or somewhere else, These plans could be done in a cardboard box, or a tote. I was shooting for a style like the one I have seen in person, but with upgrades that seem to work better using 15kV and under. Once you get into it, you'll say "OH! That's why!" Better to get two or more generators also because on some things you will want a hand held unit. Unless you put all the main parts in a project box that powers both the cabinet and the hand held. My friend Gary has done this. He had plans somewhere, but I'd have to look through my links.
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Post by Chris on Nov 3, 2009 13:25:52 GMT -5
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Nov 3, 2009 18:17:18 GMT -5
Polyurethane…Yes. I have tested this and it acts just like vintage glue.
I had doubts also and it stinks to high heaven (well the oil based does).
It's reasonable when you consider polyurethane leaves a yellowed stain on vinyl.
It’s amber and once dried and removed from a reflocked head- like you would do on a vintage head- the dust that’s mixed in the flock looks exactly the same.
And there is a side effect if you allow air bubbles in it when you apply it- you’ll get hair rubs where the weak spots are (caused by air bubbles).
I am doing further tests for myself and will test water based also.
So far I have been able to wash and dry the flocked head if I make sure to coat the polyurethane completely without air bubbles. I’ve been using a fine real hair brush 1 inch wide to get a smooth coat, but it does stink when applying and it’ll make you dizzy if your in a closed space without ventilation. I’m hoping the waterbased is as strong without the smell.
The smell fades on the head after about 3 days.
I was told about this a long time ago and dismissed it as BS, but after looking at an old purchase order our Former Dye person has it made me re-think the concept.
I would wait to see how my test heads come out first though, just in case it screws the head up in some way. I am using test heads that are hopelessly non-repairable to be on the safe side.
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actiontony
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Post by actiontony on Nov 13, 2009 8:52:57 GMT -5
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Nov 15, 2009 13:17:53 GMT -5
I would think they would work against each other, but I would have to test it first. 7.5 kV is more than enough to do a Joe head.
The most I've had to run my 30kV at is 10kV and that was in very wet weather or in very dry weather.
I let the flock sit for a bit in the cabinet so it soaks up some Aluminum res. and it always jumps nice. I don't really know if this "is" the case, but it just seems to work better if I add the flock and let it sit in there for a few minutes.
Damp weather could give you trouble when using a waterbased glue. it's not an exact science really. Some days just suck for flocking unless you have a climate controlled work space. Funny I noticed that if you do 5 heads from the same batch of flock each one will be a little different in it's pattern or even in it's shading.
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 14, 2009 5:07:16 GMT -5
Damp climate seems to work a better in most cases- at least when it's damp up this end (North East) it does. It's been very dry up here with the heat on so I've had to run the humidifier and give the flock (on some days) a little water mist into the bag(s) re-seal it and shake it around a bit. Though the damp climate does reek havoc one the water-based acrylic adhesive (seems to make it swell). 2 part 30 minute or more epoxy combats that issue. I do think I need a better humidity gauge because this one doesn't seem to change much no matter what I do. As I write this it's at 50% in the cabinet, but I know by how the flock is jumping it's much higher. I like to do the flocking at around 80%+ even though 70% is supposed to be the optimal. 80 to 90% RH just seems to flow better. March to October are smooth sailing flocking wise on this end. These few Cold months are a bit tricky. Plus I've not done my usual system of sticking the flock in the climate control box first and let it sit for a while. (Running the A/C in the winter seems to creep me out) why I have no idea. Tips; to remember when using the hand held flockers. You have to the work. You have to master shaking the unit with one hand and twirl the head on the stick in the other hand. This takes effort and lots of practice. I'm a bit lazy so I like the cabinet flocker because all I have to worry about is turning the head. Truth be told, I always bump the head into the hand held flocker if I were to do a full reflock. When I was learning how to do this my teacher said, “Get rid of that thing and make a cabinet or a tray unit... your shaking it all around and turning it... let the electrostatic do the work!" So I then put the parts into a cardboard box (my very first cabinet) Cut out one side. put a ground plate and used a kitchen draw aluminum handle as my electrode. I almost shit when I saw how much easier it was. From there I moved on to a wooden box and now to a clear acrylic box, but even though it's prettier- it's still the same concept. Now I've gone from a 7.5kV neg. Ion Gen to a 15kV, to a (tricky to make because you had to solder it together kit) 30kV -with adjustable power (using a dimmer switch) to 0-100 kV model that has cost me a few hundred. I bought this and later found a link to them much cheaper, which I posted on this forum to help out those like me who want to push the limits. I had to make sure my electrode was adjustable because when I turn this one on full the spark jumps the gap and it looks like an old Frankenstein movie so I have to move the electrode higher and it's fine. Funny part is I never have to turn it past 8 to 10kV, but I like the fact that I could crank it if need be. One of your fellow buyers is using a 2kV setup and he said his repairs work just fine. He also said he uses long pot life CA glue for his spot repairs. It's nice to see that others are like me and break out and do things their own way. I think that's how it works. Once I learned the concepts and understood it. I worked out a system to do it at my own pace with my own ideas through trial and error. Bad part was my first months of failed attemps cost me $300 in flock- more counting buying small amounts from other sources like doll websites, hunting/fishing sites, train sites (oh I've had lots of greenish flock that looked brown in the pics... lol) and $50+ in generators- 2000+ hrs of reading boring patents and studies and some some of the hair on my head... lol! This is why I bust my ass trying to answer buyer questions and help fix issues or show them a better way. Bad part is you can't just dump all the info. on someone new because they won't understand what you're talking about until they put some time into it. At that point the right questions come. I know I've said, "Why didn't you tell me that before?" to my teacher and he would say, "Would you have known what I was talking about?" The answer is "NO!" This is why many keep the info. to themselves and never share it. I'm sure there are other great sources of supplies floating around, but most will never share those either. Truth be told- my main mission with all this is to put everyone on the same playing field (well those that want to be) and once it's common knowledge maybe all the secrets will stop. Maybe, once Hasbro sees that people want A T Joes back on store shelves they'll do it. Maybe, once high priced rellers see that collectors can be just as happy with a repaired Joe as they are with a vintage- prices will drop. Maybe, others who make outstanding parts, pieces, clothes, etc. will come out with their talents. Might be just a dream. I see, (myself included... I'm guilty) people say, man James D. (and I don't know the man) sells those trucks, boats, etc. for too much money, but in fact the reason is- it takes tons of cash to get anything done or to get anyone to talk to you from companies that make or supply these kinds of services. Not to mention the time and effort. Hell, I know it doesn't mean much, but I once saw him selliing something on ebay and I emailed him a thanks for all he's done for the hobby as have many others. Unless your pockets are deep- some people in the business don't want you in their creepy little club ( that last part is meant for my own reasons and they'll know who they are ;D)! So they know- I will go around you and get the things done that I need to get done- with or without your help! From the get go on this whole thing it's been road block after road block (I also must note that there are companies that bend over backwards to help you along. Going above and beyond- that is also meant for those great people who help us in this!) Okay time to step off the soapbox! Sorry if it bored anyone! Thanks Ray PS! The Adventure Team needs to be back on the shelves! It should have never left. The head needs to look like it did in the 70's. The body could be modern, but with more durable vintage looking KFG hands- all the sets redone- plus new even better sets made! Run those great old A T ads on TV and let Joe kick ass again!  |
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Post by Jmecks on Dec 15, 2009 7:24:08 GMT -5
Hi one qestion
Is in normal for the flock to fly out of the box? I make this and it goes on the hair but it also gets on the table.
Julian
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 15, 2009 10:15:24 GMT -5
That’s a good thing. Jumping flock means it’s working perfect. If it starts to slow on jumping- a quick fluff can get it going again using a paintbrush (watch out for the electrode and the metal on the brush. It’ll jump spark) or sweep out the flock and re sift it in the box. I always hand sift the flock into the cabinet; this way if the flock gets a static charge in the bag it’ll be discharged by the metal screen on the sifter. Also, if you see the flock chain together touching the electrode- stop for a second- shut off the unit and brush that away because that connection is shorting out the system in small amounts and will affect the jumping. There are just so many little things that go on (that I take for granted as everyday things) that others may not pick up on. This is why I say there are no stupid questions and I don’t look down a anyone who is in the middle of this and needs to know something either by me or another buyer who has gone through the same thing. There are just some issues that you’ll have to deal with. I’m certain that 99.9% are not working in climate-controlled perfect working conditions. They are in basements, kitchens, garages, etc. Not everyone has a perfect little hobby space in his or her home.
Some other rules for flocking:
Keep it sealed. Seal the bags always. Put the unused flock back in the bags.
Keep it moist. (and this does not mean wet it or soak it.) Moist fro flock is not something you can see or feel (well I can feel it now, but not as a wet feeling) it’s a crunchy thick feeling. If it’s real dusty feeling to the point that it flies around or gets airborne easy it may be too dry. It’s just a feeling you have to experience yourself.
Clean it up! Work out a system of recovery. Work over a box or even a sheet of poster board (pick a color that is different from the various flock colors- so you can see the flock on it). Clean your flocking unit from time to time. It likes to trap particles just like air fresheners/filters.
Work safe! Don’t let your kids eat it touch it. Don’t use it around your food or have it floating around the house or on floors. This may be looked at as common sense, but some just don’t care and may get flock fiber in everything by being sloppy. Don’t let kids near the flock unit(s) or even the glue. Wear a mask, wear gloves, even an apron and put this stuff in a safe place.
Take a break! Some days just suck for flocking. Everything is chemical in this world so who knows what’s in the air at any given time.
It just may be someone painting down the street and the chemicals are in the air (and you don’t know it) working against you. So take a break and try again the next day or later.
Your pot roast may be screwing it all up or bathroom cleaner… who knows, but know that chemicals interact with each other no matter what they are.
Your copper kettle puts copper in you tea. Your Teflon pan puts Teflon in your food. Your shower puts all the chemicals you use to clean it and what you wash with into your skin, the air, and your lungs- not to mention what’s in your water.
Are Negative Ion’s safe? That’s a debate, but know your TV, cell phone, computer, car, microwave, etc dish out tons of positive ions that are known to hurt you and we use them without a second thought.
Negative Ion’s come to us at the beach, near a waterfall or stream, from the shower, from your A/C, from your car heater (newer cars), at work in the air filters, etc. it is said that they make you feel good and refreshed. Whether that’s new age BS- I don’t know, but I do know that you should be aware of what you make your electrode out of. Lead will spit out lead ions, copper, copper ions, and so on.
Funny, I always say to my kids, “what ever you touch… goes into your mouth!” meaning what ever touches your skin passes through it into your body. For me… if I use an insecticide on the plants outside and get some on my hands later I can taste it. Now it may be my imagination, but it always happens like that.
Don’t mix colors in crappy light. Natural light is best, but flock fiber does not like sunlight before it’s used for flocking. After you’ve used it to flock something it doesn’t matter what light could do to it. The flocking part is done. Before hand though, what you do with the flock controls how it reacts and how it works.
There may be a million more things also, but I think you can get the idea. I take these things for granted, but others may not give them a thought. Also there may be readers that are in the business saying no to some of my thoughts on flocking, but I'm not an expert- I'm just going off of what I have read and seen/done through trial and error.
Ray
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Post by Adventurer1 on Dec 16, 2009 2:55:31 GMT -5
thanks for the tips. I’m all set now. I used a plant misting bottle filled with water and lightly sprayed my blond fuzz and it worked out perfec. I wasn’t closing the bag after using it so I guess it dried out. between that and the epoxy he looks very nice.
thanks
louis
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 16, 2009 7:57:21 GMT -5
Cool glad it helped!
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 18, 2009 8:09:06 GMT -5
Wow! I have to clear up some of my soapbox comments. I received quite a few emails about my commentary (and it is just that). Sometimes it’s meant to promote our product in a truthful way. Sometimes it’s meant to help collectors have a chance to buy affordable Joe’s, parts, and accessories. Sometimes I’ve been hit by a brick wall and am trying to climb it or break through it (I’m referring to the purchase of chemicals, flock, equipment, and etc. that I need to continue.) Is it better left unsaid most times? Maybe, but I’m a “let’s get this done today!” person which gets me into trouble at times because many times you have to jump through hoops and play the game. This said, I want to clear up some comments that some have the wrong idea about.
This is twofold. One there are great resellers who sell great products that are well worth the prices they are asking (at least to me), but there are those that are of the “…Hmmm… Well how much you got?” mind set and play around trying to get more cash out of you just because they can. This was meant for them. No it was not meant for Cots, Tony.
Secondly this was meant to let resellers know that sometimes a drop in price can help collectors get items they have been dreaming about. In short instead of making $100 in profit shoot for a little less profit and more “happy” buyers. I’ve found that repeat customer sales always beat out new customer sales, but do promote new customer sales.
I don’t know the man as stated, but this comment was more about why prices are what they are. Everything has a bottom line and no one can work in the red of that bottom line.
You can't offer something for $10 if it costs you $30 to make it and unless you’re Wal-Mart or other big chains- you can’t cut prices and count on quantity to make up for the short fall on price. Plus I purchased a few guides from him (that are in pieces because they have been looked through by me so many times) I also said thanks to the man because many things would have never happened if he didn’t put it on the line. I know it’s hard to balance your mission and your household at the same time. That’s all.
First off, NO! This was not meant for the GI JOE Collectors club. This was meant for those in the supply business. They have memberships and if they do not let you in- other members of theirs do not want to talk to you. Some of these Associations and private member groups are so busy with luncheons, barbeques, open bars, retreats, power summits, and etc. That they do not have time for someone who can’t jump on a plane and jet off to Europe to attend a conference (which ends up being a “how can we lock this field down even more” meeting.) That’s who it was meant for and like I’ve said, I will go around you (if need be) to get done what I need to get done and sooner or later you’ll have to deal with me on my terms once the market is behind me…
This is just what it says. There are many that welcome a hobbyist with open arms and understand that "word of mouth" matters in this hobby. Word of mouth can make or break a project and to these wonderful people, I say, “Thank you.”
I hope this clears up some of the questions. I have left out names and such because I don’t want to burn too many bridges at this stage in the game. Also, If I forward a link to you (those in the business), if you do not wish to add it that’s fine, but at least give me a reason why so I know where I stand. I completely understand various reasons why some may be hesitant. Remember, people can deal with a negative excuse or reason, but a slight or snub will cut deep and that person will never forget it.
One last thing, I do not have any animosity towards other reflockers. I have been more than happy sending out my bald Joes in the past. Once I learned that I could possibly do this for myself I wanted to find a way to make it a little better looking. Between all of the reflockers, in my experience- one had good colors for some Joe hair colors, another had great feel and look, another had great adhesion, another had a great price tag, another had great customer service. I’ve tried (and in continuous testing and upgrades) to put all these great points into one product that is also a service, but also something a collector could do for his or her self. I think with continuous input from our buyers and collectors I can get this done. I do appreciate and thank everyone, from buyers, suppliers, collectors, and even reflockers (inspiration) for all their help in bringing me this far and even if it all tanks at some point at least the information is out there for the next guy.
Also know I do not receive any benefits by posting links to other’s retail sites. It would be nice to get a few bonus items here and there, but for the most part it’s just to help out collectors and flockers in training. What I make (if anything) goes back into keeping it going and for testing and research to make it even better. For myself, it’s a very interesting obsession. Note: I would be doing this anyway so why not help others like me to do it too…
Thanks
Ray- Flock Man
PS I put my mug on my avatar so people can see I'm just a guy like them who loves GI JOE from day one!
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 18, 2009 13:35:06 GMT -5
I have quite a few Joe heads that are set in dirt stained. I’ve tried dish soap, fantastick,
Dial, arm & Hammer bathroom cleaner, Pine sol, glycerin soap and even though most of it is clean the stains are still there. Now, I’m not talking about the bluish dye/mold/ink stains that we all see on our Joe heads. I’m talking about dirt I’ve removed the hair and beards and you can see how clean it is underneath so it’s really ground in. Maybe a solvent type cleaner, but I don’t want to us acetone because on these heads the paint is pretty good. I ask it here because I’ve left a few messages to my friend the restoration guy, but he’s in Florida until late spring and always impossible to get hold off this time of year. Any suggestions that won’t ruin these heads?
Ray
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actiontony
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Flock Concepts Member!
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Post by actiontony on Dec 19, 2009 12:32:55 GMT -5
Ray,
I would try zit cream like oxy cream. It may take a few tries, but it gets in there good.
Tony
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 19, 2009 17:03:02 GMT -5
Ok I'll try that!
Thanks
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 21, 2009 8:07:18 GMT -5
Well what do you know. The oxy cream worked like a charm. I was planning on buying some twin pines stuff, but this worked perfect. I've seen this method posted somewhere, but never had the need to try it. Great tip. Thanks!
Ray
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 22, 2009 9:26:58 GMT -5
Ebay Question:
Answer:
Hopefully those in the business will read this and offer a better deal for fiber, because collectors want and need it.
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bfjoe
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Flock Concepts Member
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Post by bfjoe on Dec 22, 2009 13:35:11 GMT -5
I've already been down this road and it's a hassel. buy the kit save yourself the trouble.
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Dec 23, 2009 7:14:03 GMT -5
I'd rather see people find a supply. This way if they succeed maybe they post the information and help out everyone. Better yet now that the re-flock bar has been raised, everyone will need to do even better and that's a plus for everyone. If you're wise- buy a mixer kit because it has most of the colors you'll need to buy from a supplier. The special sauce air and sea mixes are the only mixes (in the mixer kit) that are not solid color.
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Jan 2, 2010 16:04:31 GMT -5
OK, I was wondering if any of our members or visitors could help out this collector. Sadly, I do not speak Spanish and am wondering if someone can lend a hand to him.
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Post by Warren on Jan 9, 2010 11:58:01 GMT -5
Hi Ray,
I'm having some trouble. the flock is not sticking up in my repair. I shook all of it out in the gi joe and it's just comes off. Can you tell me what is going wrong? thank you.
warren
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Jan 9, 2010 12:35:07 GMT -5
If I remember correctly you are in Arizona. I may be wrong, but I’m guessing it’s pretty dry where you are. Relative Humidity (R H) is key in flocking. It can’t be too dry or too wet, but I would prefer a moist climate to a dry one for flocking. I know up here (N E Coast USA) during the winter months with the heat on it gets pretty dry. This taught me to use a humidifier to raise the R H in the air. A quick test for this is to go in the bathroom with your setup. Run the shower hot for a few minutes- shut it off.
Load some flock in you box and do a test run. All you would need is the stick you put the head on and maybe wet the tip a little. You’ll see the flock start jumping like crazy.
Oh, I’m sry, I see you made a handheld. No problem just use the hand held in there with the moist air and you’d see a big difference.
Note: water based adhesives swell in moist air so you may have to use a long pot life epoxy or for a small repair a gel type CA glue. Good quality craftbond type glue could work also on a spot repair. 99.9% of flocking troubles are R H of the air. Too much and the flock gets heavy. Too little and the flock gets a static charge and sticks to the units ground or the plastic cup.
You want your flock not to have a negative static charge so when it is in the negative static field it jumps away to ground and by doing so embeds itself in the adhesive.
Now if you had a fancy $$$$ flocker, you could change the charge from Negative to a Positive charge and keep switching, but if you’re like everyone else you’re not going to spend $$$$ or more just to flock a small GI JOE head.
In short Warm moist air works best for flocking. Cold and damp or hot and arid make it harder to flock. A small workspace is easier to control the R H so a bathroom size room is good to flock in. Another simple test can be to look at your bag. If the flock is sticking to the sides of the bag or even the sides of you plastic flocker cup, this could show you that the flock is too dry. Let me know how you make out. Dry flock sticks together end to end. Wet flock balls or clumps. In a hand held unit you won't pick up on this as easy as you would notice it in a box type or tray type unit. In a tray type the flock will hold fast to the ground plate so you know the R H is not right. In the handheld you should be able to shake it on it's side and the flock will shoot out into the adhesive.
Ray
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Jan 17, 2010 12:39:51 GMT -5
On this type of Negative ION generator (120 volts AC in/ 7.5 kVDC (7500 volts) out) you would connect the ground to a true ground source. They used to sell a 12VDC in/ 15kVDC out that was wired differently and many see the wiring for that and think it’s the same, but with a 120V AC line in, the neutral wire (standard USA white) could have voltage potential and cause electrocution or a charge build up so by grounding to the green you know it’s grounded. I make it a habit to touch a screwdriver (rubber handle) to the ground plate and electrode after I shut the unit off to discharge static. I’ve been zapped a few times by the charge (by not paying attention) and it felt like a static shock from a rug or sweater (which usually run around 30,000 volts no current). I wouldn’t recommend touching the electrode on purpose, but if you work safely a touch here and there should not harm you. Current kills. This is why the 120 volts AC is dangerous and the 7500 volts DC (little or no current) just gives you a static zap (like a rug or sweater).
As with anything, think first and work safe.
The glue I use is a two part epoxy tested and developed by Nyatex Adhesive. I gave them a few heads to test on and they came up with this 2 part epoxy system that is used in tennis ball felting, but I’ve been informed that 30 minute (Great Planes or Pro brand) epoxy works excellent. I bought some and tested it and for the most part it works great, but it’s a tad stiff when dry. It’s said that you can play with the mix ratio to get a flexible product.
I was including a Acrylic Adhesive (from Nyatex) in the flock repair kits, but in had issues in different climates around the USA and it was only water proof if dried under 300 degrees F for 20 minutes (joes head can’t take that) so because of this and it’s cost $35 to $45 a pint I cut it from the repair kit. Due to cost and shipping restrictions I can’t ship the 2 part Nyatex epoxy. People are not going to pay $48 for a repair kit. As it is a $19.99 repair kit costs $18 to make and sell on ebay (I state that knowing it’s more, but I’d rather live the lie and enjoy the hobby and process)
Hope this helps you out.
Ray
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Feb 13, 2010 18:21:26 GMT -5
flockconcepts.tripod.com has a bunch of links. Basically you’ll need a tube (like the flashlight or it could be a Pringles can or piece of PVC pipe) A food container (the size is up to you and what you plan to do with the flocker) Some electric tape A hot glue gun is good to seal up the unit (if the flock gets inside the wiring it can short out the system because the flock is treated to be conductive) A negative ION generator (beware that the one they sell at electronic goldmine is a 120 volt and many of the instructions on the Internet are for a 12 volt model. They are not wired the same, but give the same result.) A 3 wire power cord ( an old computer power cord works well just make sure you follow the wiring. Don’t guess- if you cut the end off the power cord and the wires are not white, black, and green- do some research on which wires are hot, neutral, and ground. Normally Black is hot, white is neutral, and green is ground, but I’ve cut open some cords and found blue, brown, and red, etc. Again don’t just guess because wrong wiring can put you on the floor or kill you. See the high voltage (7.5kV =7500 volts DC)that comes out of the unit which charges the flock has little or no current- so it feels like a rug shock, but not as strong, but the 120 volts going into the unit is deadly if wired wrong because it has current. This is not meant to scare you, it’s meant to warn you not to screw around.) IF you wire the unit the way some others show you could end up dead because grounding to the neutral wire can make the unit have 120 volt AC potential. Check my website for information on wiring a 120 volt AC to 7.5kV DC. Once you get the hang of flocking and how the unit works you can upgrade it to more powerful Negative Ion Generators that cost a bit more, but work the same really. Mine now runs from 5kV (5000 volts to 100kV 100,000 volts DC), but I’ve never had to turn it past 8 to 10kV to reflock a action figure head. You’ll also need an alligator clip and wire for the ground. A ground plate (to put under whatever you are flocking… you’ll clip your ground to this) I tried to build this one with things people could get at a dollar store (other than the negative ION generator ($4 last I checked at electronicgoldmine.com) Depending on what you want to do and what type of flock you want will determine the price for flock. Flock dust can be found anywhere for cheap. The longer the flock the higher the price… example GI Joe length is around $50 to $150 per pound or $3.95 per pound if you buy 300 pounds or more. Some may have select colors for $25 a pound, but those colors do not match vintage GI JOE, but could be fine for T-shirts or fishing rod grips, displays, hat’s, Ken dolls, etc. I have quite a few customers that use my flock for everything, but GI Joe- from Christmas figures to rifle stocks. I know when I started on this quest I bought a $500 flocking unit (which had the same parts inside) and this homemade one will cost you under $25 or less depending on how creative you are and what you have around the house. Hope it hasn’t bored you. Thanks Ray Flock Concepts
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Post by Ray (Flock Man) on Feb 26, 2010 21:32:41 GMT -5
Hey Chris,
Listen, if you have the coral orange, dark mustard yellow, red, and black- you have all you need for the Land adventurer mix. The solid brown is just to make it a little easier to mix, but you can get the same result from other color combinations.
On the Blonde you could go with the cream, light yellow, brown, white, dark mustard and (black if you want it ashy like some Air Adventurers) or cream, black, dark mustard,
and coral orange for most others. From that you can lighten it or darken it after ding some small test flocks. I use old damaged heads and glue up patches at a time then compare all the patches of different shades until I get to where I want. It’s not an exact science in the end just start with the base and work it from there.
On the Sea mix- you could use the orange and black or a black/ brown with mustard or mustard and a touch of the pink and black and you’ll come around to match many of the shades of Sea adventurer. I prefer the reddish tone, but many like the more orange tone. If you look close under a magnifying glass in natural light you can see the coral undertone of the vintage Sea adventurers hair no matter what the shade is.
Flock is funny like that. You can get a tone or shade with colors that you wouldn’t think mix right. Like the Gray. There is no solid gray in there- it’s black and white and depending on how much of each it’ll will give you a result.
I’m not an expert, but through trial and error and careful study of the vintage flock I’ve removed from old heads- I’ve picked out the colors. Hell, I’ve found blue flock in some of the hair colors. I’ve found reds in the vintage black. So this tells me that most colors can be mixed to the same result. See many buy rust color for the Sea Adventurer, but when they add the contrast blacks or browns it becomes too dark and although it looks pretty good in bright or natural light- on the shelf in your house it looks dark or a funny light brown.
The same goes for the white- the purest white can look bluish, but if you add a touch of cream (very little) it can look deeper white than the pure white.
If it’s not a problem- I think I’ll post this on the forum for others who bought the solid colors.
Ray
Yep! Orange! It's crazy how it works. The orange makes the yellow and the red pop. Pink can work also instead of the red because the pink and yellow combo make red or what appears to be red- then the combo of orange and black add to it make it all look like a brown with red and yellow highlights. I’ve been reading a study on flock fiber and color.
Most times what looks perfect in the mixing bowl comes out wrong on the flocked head- so testing is need each time.
Ray
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