train hobbyist that found his way here w questions

[stubbdog]

First off, GREAT FORUM! Found my way here researching the whole static applicators of course. Interesting how there seems to be more helpful info here in a Joe head site than on most of the train sites I have been on.

You have already answered most of my questions without trying, so thanks. But, I do have a few if you don't mind.

1. On flocking fibers I am looking for a little longer lengths 2-4 mm and maybe even some 6 mm. Donjer's site doesnt seem to have that variance (although I just sent off an email to ask them). With the idea that they don't offer it, do you have any suggestions for longer length flock and/or static grass?

2. I can't seem to find it again but randomly in one of your thread replies you talked about your buddy making you a shop vac attachment for recovering "spilled" flock. Can you share some information on that?

3. Last one for now. for your heads, you are using the box with metal ball and pvc wand. For my train tables I won't have that kind of "take the table to the ball" option. I am going to try and build the hand tool using the 120VAC version of the ion gen, just ordered it a few minutes ago. On the train boards they talk about nailing a nail or screw into the table (in the middle of the glue) to give it the charge. But, even with this way you still have to "shake" the static grass out. In your experience, is that the best approach or is there a better way to get enough charge to maybe even getting the "shooting out affect"?

I saw your post where you used your hand held over a t-shirt flock job. Was that a shake job or a "shoot" job?

Thank you for your time.

[Ray (Flock Man)]

Q. On flocking fibers I am looking for a little longer lengths 2-4 mm and maybe even some 6 mm. Donjer's site doesnt seem to have that variance (although I just sent off an email to ask them). With the idea that they don't offer it, do you have any suggestions for longer length flock and/or static grass?

A. Donjer (I’ve been told by them) can make longer fibers for somewhere around $75 per pound last I knew. This may have changed because fiber costs have gone up since then. The small amount of blond 6 mm flock I purchased was through a train website. If I remember right it was like $25 total for a small bag. Also know that you can mix various sizes to get a more natural grass effect.

Q. I can't seem to find it again but randomly in one of your thread replies you talked about your buddy making you a shop vac attachment for recovering "spilled" flock. Can you share some information on that?

A. The vacuum I used in the shop was a standard vac, but using an old shop vac base and a 5 gallon water bottle at the top- it now is a cyclone vacuum. The fibers never make it to the original vacuum which is in the shop attic and only used for suction. If you google cyclone vac or homemade cyclone vacuum- you should be able to find what I’m talking about. It’s just a way to have basically a central vacuum without it ever loosing suction.

Q. 3. Last one for now. for your heads, you are using the box with metal ball and pvc wand. For my train tables I won't have that kind of "take the table to the ball" option. I am going to try and build the hand tool using the 120VAC version of the ion gen, just ordered it a few minutes ago. On the train boards they talk about nailing a nail or screw into the table (in the middle of the glue) to give it the charge. But, even with this way you still have to "shake" the static grass out. In your experience, is that the best approach or is there a better way to get enough charge to maybe even getting the "shooting out affect"?

A. Yes for the heads it’s the box type, others use the wand/shaker type. For you it’ll be the shaker type. What happens is the flock is charged and you’ll attach the ground clip to a pin or nail that is touching the glue. The charged flock will shoot as you shake the unit and stick into the grounded glue on end. On longer grass fibers it’ll be less uniform, but that’s more or less what longer real grass does anyway.
With hand held models the higher the output volts the less you’ll have to shake, but a bit of extra shake can save you $1000. You can also add a squeeze bottle to the handheld to get a little air blast to force flock into deep areas. With practice it can work very well for a hobbyist- granted I’ve had some failures when trying to do things outside GIjOE. What I would call a failure is a piece that takes me longer than 5 minutes to glue up and flock. My world only works with speed. If I wasn’t concerned with time per unit I could flock many more things with my current setup, but my setup is geared towards GIjOE heads. I’ve had to turn down a number of flock jobs because of the time it would take or because I would have to change my current equipment around to suit. Some of you reading this know about this firsthand.

This doesn’t stop me from trying though. For you – you’re geared towards Dio building and creating grass effects, so with practice you’ll get it done.

It was a bit of both on the T-shirt. Am I a pro T-shirt flocker… no, but I added that part to show that if I was geared for it and could do it the same every time (and fast) I could.

Just keep you mind open because you may need to work things a different way that’s better for you.

My buddy and I played with a grassmaster flocker for years and never got the results we wanted. It wasn’t the fault of the unit, it just wasn’t what worked for us. It may have been because I had seen the ease in which the cabinet worked. At the same time I know of many that use the same or similar hand held unit and get great results.

Just remember the main concept, which is to charge chemically treated flock fibers with static so they stand on end in adhesive. I do not ground my heads because my system uses the charge and the ground against each other by breaking the field with the glued up head. With grass you would have to make the adhesive grounded or else the charged fibers would try to by-pass the glue and head for the floor.

The principle is the same as with a charged air filter. Charging the air forces the small particles floating around to become charged and they head for ground. This takes things like dust from the air, but you’ll notice later that your furniture is dusty because it was in the path of dust heading for ground.
Glad to have you with us and hope it helps.

Ray