ion Generator

[mattflockingnewb]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.


Hi

Thanks for posting the video of how to make a flocking device.

I live in england and have found it difficult to find an ion generator. Even after scouring the internet.

I managed to find one in an old air purifer. Please see the attached image. It says on the generator:

FA1-7-2
I/P;230 VAC/50-60 HZ
O/P;7kv DC NEGATIVE

Would this do this trick?

It looks like it has a slightly different wire set up to the ones in your videos.

I'm have very basic electrical skills but quick learner.

Any help would be very grateful appreciated.

Thanks

Matt

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.

That'll do ya! I'm just not sure on the wiring in England, but we do have members from England here so they may be able to add some input on it!
This link may help, but do some research yourself also! My wiring is for the USA only!
wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_is_the_Hot_wire_and_which_is_the_Neutral_wire_if_the_wires_you_see_are_a_Brown_a_Blue_and_a_Yellow-Green_wire

The big red is the output 7.5kV (7500 volts)

Ray
Flock Concepts

[mattflockingnewb]

Thanks so much for your help Ray I really appreciate it!

I've had a search on the members but cant see where it says if their from England.

Also I'm totally new to making flockers. I used to know someone that use to have a battery operated flocker. I guessing that by the 7.5kv power of the generator I probably cant make a battery opperated one from this.

As always any help would be grately appreciated.

Thanks

Matt

[Ray (Flock Man)]

These members and I think a few more are from the UK.
herrkamel

bedeekin

sparklebudgie

toadboy

[Ray (Flock Man)]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.



Again I say this is guess work from the picture, but it would have to be researched further.
Here in the U.S. it would be either a 120VAC unit input or maybe a 12VDC input, but I know that for sure in outside the States.

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[mattflockingnewb]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.




Ray You diamond!

Thanks you so much for your help.

The wire we believe to be the hot live/in goes to a circuit which is attached to a light on the other side labelled 'Ion Check' which is then attached to a piece of string that then goes across the out side of the unit.

I have uncovered whats under the plastic sticker from the first image
and its what you suspected: a light which on the other side the light is labelled 'on'

Hopefully you can see what the yellow box is now. If you have any idea please let me know. I would be very grateful.



With the generator saying on it:
FA1-7-2
I/P;230 VAC/50-60 HZ
O/P;7kv DC NEGATIVE

Does this mean 230 Vaults Alternate Current?
and below 7KiloVaults Direct Current NEGATIVE?

This one: www.flocking.biz/fabricoater.html runs off about 5 x D size batteries. Would i need a different generator to make one run off batteries?

Thanks again Ray sorry for all the questions.

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.




Okay so the yellow is a Interference Suppression CAPACITOR.
The whole unit is: 230VAC input and 7kV DC output. So mainly you need only concern yourself with the output wire (Red). Then you would need a earth ground.

I need you to send me a picture of the front and one of the power cord end.

Why? because I want to research this model a little and see if there is a ground prong on the end of the power cord. I don't see a ground other than the neutral (blue) wire.
You'll need a 3rd ground prong separate from the blue neutral/ground wire. The reason is sometimes a neutral wire has electric potential and can cause a shock.
I think I have a pretty good handle on the wiring for this, but would like to check a few things out first.
I'd rather make a mountain out of a mole hill and be safe. Plus know that any of my comments are only what I would do and not what others should do. With that being said... I would like to live a long life and wouldn't risk it in any way. This is why I'd like a few more shots to make a safe educated guess.
Now that I've scared you a little. My gut tells me (and from dealing with this type of stuff hands on) that it may be as simple as connecting the red wire to the electrode of your flocking device and the third ground wire (green or green/yellow striped) to the ground plate of your flocking unit- leaving the rest of this Negative ION Generator in it's case as the power pack.
Note the picture is a possible setup. ...but again all I have to go on is USA wiring 120VAC and I believe in England it's 220-240 so my picture idea may not work at all.

Ray
Flock Concepts

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

Yes you would need a different generator to run off batteries.

A 12VDC input / 15kVDC output would run off batteries. Using a 9V bat. would most likely run the unit at 9kV either more or less.

www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.htm
may be able to put something together for you.
That unit in your link must cost around $700 to $1200 USD to buy.

[mattflockingnewb]

Ray once again you knowledge is astounding!

Thanks so much.

Ok so attached is various views of the unit.
Hope it helps, Thanks again for all your help!

I see from your video that you attached the High voltage out wire to the hopper mesh lid. Wouldnt this eletricute me if touched because its very exposed?

Thanks

Matt

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

Note that this is all theory and ideas not instruction and should be treated as untested theory. The outcome of these ideas may be fatal from electrocution and should not be tried by anyone without proper training.


Okay this is good. This means (from what I’ve read) www.homewiringguide.com/page7.htm

What would need to be done is add a ground wire to the empty screw. This will be the earth/ground that will attach to the grounding clip or plate depending on which type of flocker is being made. And the red will connect to the electrode. The fuse must be in good order and safe for testing. Never assume that everything will work as planned.
The only snag I can see is if the suppressor (yellow module) either prevents a static charge or is there to short circuit if there is a static charge. This may mean it has to be removed, but my question then is at 230 volts will the output then be unsafe. Here in the States the output has high voltage, but little or no current- meaning it will scare you as does a static shock from a rug or sweater, but it wouldn’t kill you. Note, a static shock from a rug can run 30+kV (30,000 volts no current). The 230 volts is dangerous because it has amps. This is why you can run a washing machine on it, but couldn’t run the same washer on the 7kV (7,000 volts) from your Negative Ion Generator. More volts, but not enough amps/current.

Then also once the unit is complete don’t leave it around or work with liquids around it. no one would make toast in the tub, but for some reason people leave these flocking units on the kitchen table or work bench where others can touch them.

I always use plastic sticks for flocking heads and wooden paintbrushes for cleaning flock fiber out of the unit. It comes down to it being only as safe as the user and the users practices.

The units I use are pretty safe as long as I treat them with respect.

Note: again this is just educated guessing and I have not tested this type of system out myself. IF you have any doubts about your ability to do this find someone in your area that has this knowledge. This is only a possible example. Remember playing around with any of this stuff could kill you if not fully researched and prepared properly. This is not for everyone to try.

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[mattflockingnewb]

Hi Ray

Thanks for all your time.

The professional battery flocker i linked to is about $650. I have used one of these before and the high voltage head in the hopper was kind of sealed up.

This probably sounds like a silly question to you but I'm going to ask anyway.

It appears that the hooper in your homemade flocking unit video has the live wire attached to the metal mesh. If you touch this it will electrocute you right?

I am a little spooked about the high voltage and thinking of maybe going for a smaller battery option.

The attached image is from ebay: cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vehicle-Car-Ozone-Ionizer-Air-Purifier-Generator-Mini-W-/250722584920?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a603b0958#ht_4128wt_907

Do you think this will do it?

It will run off a car battery that is 12 vaults. But due to other functions in the car pulling of the battery it will obviously not need all this vaultage.

If not I may go back to plan A. Using the plug in ionizer.


Again thanks for all your help Ray

Matt

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

I'm trying to spook you into respect for the unit.

I have touched mine many times by accident and like I said, it scares the crap out of you, but doesn't harm you because there is little or no current. The units I use range from a 7.5kV, 15kV, 24kV, and my main unit that's 5 - 100kV, but I never have to go higher than 5 to 8kV to flock a GIjOE head. at 100kV the flock flies out of the box and all over the place and the spark gab looks like lightening. This is because my cabinet/tray flocker is only about 10 inches square so anything past 30kV is way over power... hell, over 10kV would be too much for my needs. Something I found out by trial and error.
Would I purposely touch the electrode? No, but there have been times that I didn't practice what I preach and and feel a zap on my figures that was much less than a good carpet shock while wearing a sweater.
My concern for you is 230 volts AC in. I've been shocked by 120 volts once while doing a demolition job and it put me on the floor- which is lucky because many times you will stick to it instead. That was years ago when I was a cocky kid working with my Dad.
Now with 230 volts going in I worry about someone making a mistake or not respecting the input. I also don't know if your output high voltage will have any amp/current because of 230 volts going in. I have no way of knowing this for sure without testing it myself, but we have 120 VAC here in the states and I have not had a problem yet. I say yet because you could always get a faulty part. This is why I always treat it with respect. I don't want you end up making a Tesla coil.
I do believe that the suppression module is there to prevent build up of a static shock, but it's just too much guessing on my end.
If it was a set up like my videos I know how they will act and what they will and will not do.
Trust me when I first tried any of this I was afraid to even turn the unit on once it was together and my friend Gary laughed at my test setup. I set the thing on a large cardboard box that was on top of a wooden pallet and I used wooden broom sticks to turn it on and off. My test GIjOE head was on a 5 foot PVC pipe.
Gary had a flocker he bought from a model train website for $250. USD and it ran off a 9V battery so I knew how it was supposed to work, but still I had fear of it. Now I have respect, but not the fear because I understand how all of it works.
You may have to build the other first and then decide if this one is something you can do.
We have a member here that built a electric fly swatter type first and later made one like mine. Most of those $600+ models are around 70kV (70,000 volts DC), but again they have little or no current so they are pretty safe unless you have a pace maker or something- then I wouldn't know for sure.
In one of my videos I jump the gap to show the spark.

[Ray (Flock Man)]

This could make you feel better!

amasci.com/emotor/negion.html

[mattflockingnewb]

Hi Ray

Sounds like you had quite a colourful childhood! Thanks for the info on vaultage and shocks.

I started to make a flocker out of the ionzer and the live wire came out of the unit and is broken beyond repair. It must have been loose. Dam

So I brought one of these of ebay: cgi.ebay.co.uk/ULTRASONIC-PEST-REPELLER-RATS-MICE-SPIDERS-ANTS-IONISER-/330433609779?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Garden_Plants_Weed_Pest_Control_CV&hash=item4cef60c033#ht_2295wt_1060

Thinking I could remove all the stuff i didnt need and inside it looks like the attached image.

under the circuit board are two cable that lead to a plug and the cables on the left lead to a speaker.

I'm guessing because it doesnt have the ion genenrator it is no good for what i need. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again Ray

Matt

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

In looking at this I see the multiplier (the blue caps with resisters) those are you High voltage, but again I’d have to have the unit in hand to test and figure out what is really what.
I still see your best option as the first unit. I’m in a dilemma because I can only state what I would do and can’t tell you exactly what you should do because of safety reasons.
If I had these units I would already have at least two working flocking units using the first and last pictured parts, but because I am unsure of what you are able to do safely I can only make statements as to what I would do and you will have to run with it by reading the links and working it out. IONs are just a side effect. The high Voltage is what makes the flocker work. The high voltage is what charges the flock fiber to be drawn towards a grounded/earth surface. Once charge the flock is attracted to ground and stands on end in a tight orderly fashion. The negative part means the flock is negative charged. If you used a TV flyback it would be a positive charge. Since most popular science states that negative ions are good for you- it’s said to be better to work with a negative static charge.

The reason we work with ION Generators is because they are an easy to locate and most times a low cost way to create a static charge. The reason I am torn about saying, as fact, this is what you need to do is safety. These things for the most part are as safe as plugging in a radio, but there is risk. Also you have to consider how much you will end up spending trying and testing verses just saving your money and buying a commercial unit. Even on the commercial unit you will get a shock if you stick your hand in the charging field and it won’t be a 7kV zap, but a 30 to 70kV shock, but again there is little or no current (current/amps kill).
You may be able to buy a much cheaper unit from:
www.sceneryexpress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NH60131
It will be basically what you could make, but for you it may be a better option because I fear you are not quite ready or confident in your safety to build your own. At least not yet. When you are after some research and testing (safely) you’ll find it easy to do, and the plans and info. are throughout this forum.
I’m not brushing you off, but I have to think of a person’s safety and not everyone is ready to build a unit at the beginning.
This is why I post disclaimers to put fear into those that might take it too lightly. Any route you go has the same risk in the finished unit.

[mattflockingnewb]

Ray!


Thanks for your help. I managed to fix the ion generator that broke. And made myself a flocker including the addition of a nice little button to avoid electrocution as well.

The Flocker is high vaultage, do you know what ampage it is?

What I made can be seen at: aedaspresents.blogspot.com/2011/03/aedas-presents-matt-robinson.html

Thanks again for all your help Ray!

Matt

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[Ray (Flock Man)]

Awesome!
The amps (at least here in the USA) would be very little if any.

It's nice to see you continued with the project.

Ray

[ashish gajjar]

REspected sir

Sir i want to make a velvet pensil making floking machine
I am a mechanical engineer and now days in india all pass out student of b.e. mechanical
I live in surat,gujarat,india abd i am fight against engineering dull market their for sir i wsnt to start a small scale bussiness
So please sir give me ideas, knowledge and pdf file for making flokin device

My gmail id
[e-mail]
And
[e-mail]

[idrusa]

Hello, I really need help, please.
I tried to make my own flocking box (Italy here😅) but I think I bought the wrong ions generator, or/and maybe wrong current adapter ... Someone can confirm and help please?

Negative ion generator
Input vol:AC200-240V
50/60HZ


Adapter
Input AC 200-240V 50HZ
Output DC12V