For all the flockers in training!

[Ray (Flock Man)]

I get emails daily from flockers in training working towards the perfect flock look for their Joes and I think to myself what is that really?
I think it’s a false image of perfectly flocked Joes from TV, print, and sample pictures. We remember through re-viewing, catalog pictures, YouTube videos, and things like ViewMaster reels, but Joe didn’t look like that 99% of the time. In the below collage of LA heads you can see what Hasbro really gave us in the real world.
Granted some are lint filled and dirty, but look beyond that, at the beard lines. Looking at these pics will make any learning flocker a lot happier about his or her work.
There is not one of these heads that I wouldn’t strip off and redo with new flock- even the sealed in the package Joes I might consider redoing.
My point is don’t let someone or yourself for that matter critique your flock work too harshly because chances are very great that you are doing better than the original flockers of GI JOE! Just look what they’ve done!

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[traud]

I totally agree with what you are saying. We are our own worst critic. What has been said before about 3 heads side by side and they are all different is true. I really notice it with the air adventurers the most, and again with the beard lines some are thicker in the side burn area than others...it's just the way Hasbro did things back then...get them out while the market is there..then at the end it was almost like get the stuff used up were not making any more new products.
Anyway, I know I really critique my work and think gees this looks like crap then I'll post pics and others think it looks great...can you do mine like that?

[Ray (Flock Man)]

What has been said before about 3 heads side by side and they are all different is true. I really notice it with the air adventurers the most,

A strange thing happens when you do like a batch of 5 or more Air Adventurer reflocks. The color shades change a little with each one unless you sweep out the flock after every second head and remix it back into the bag.
Some will come out ashy others Will be bright and still others come out deeper yellow. On the same token, I have vintage heads that do the same thing and I've always chalked it up to being a combo of age and various production runs, but it just may be a fact of life using the same technology in making the flock as was the case in the 70's.

[traud]

Funny you mention that. I've noticed, mostly with lighter colors that the longer I flock with that particular color the more the colors separate. It is almost like the different colors hold/carry the charge differently. As a result I have to keep mixing the flock around during the head flocking.
Could this also be caused by a humidity problem...I'm not convinced that it is, but you never know.

[Ray (Flock Man)]

I thought it was because of the 70's treatment technology, but I see the same thing happen with the new commercially treated colors I have bought and yes the lighter colors separate. Now I did a little research and found that not all colors are treated the same because the treatments can stain the flock. So on a lighter color less would be used or different formulations of chemicals are used because of color reactions. On dark colors you wouldn't notice a slight color change as much.
I see the same thing happen with the Rayon flock powder. It just may be a fact of flocking.
Funny this is the stuff the Studies are based on. Maybe we all need some Federal Funding Grants to investigate the phenomenon.
hmmmm?

[rob1]

Ray,
I know you and I have talked about how Hasbro didn't always have the best looking flocking, but you have to think about how many different employees probably did the work. Each one doing it a different way. They had to probably do so many heads at a certain time. So maybe they didn't clean extra flock out of the cabinet and darker or lighter shades happened. Employees wanted to get them done quickly and some were glued sloppy. So that's what I think caused so many different variations.

Robert

[Ray (Flock Man)]

Rob you are 100% right. I am in the middle of doing a little less than 2000 heads for a special order and the hardest thing to do is glue up each one the same. After a batch of 100 is done I then have to go through them and pick out a few that should be redone to keep the quality level high.
It’s a big difference than doing smaller orders from a collector. If you do 10 heads say, you can keep the quality level high very easy, but on a bigger order it gets harder after 50 or so of the same style and color because of boredom.
With my friend, we’ve been working out a small-scale automated process. It’s kind of a long trough with a charging bar in the center, a ground at the bottom and a roller setup that you feed the sticks&heads into and they roll along and are flocked. Some testing shows promise, but I’m still unhappy with the flock thickness at the crown of the heads. This may lead to a change in the roller system to feed the sticks&heads at 45 degrees or even vertically. 45deg. May be the best way to ensure full coverage all around the head and prevent glue from dripping or building up. Still far from complete.
My main points with the above comments were more for home flockers who super judging their own work. Some are not realizing that your prep work is more important than the flocking.
Things like cleaning the heads (even if they are stripped- they still need to be cleaned using a solvent type cleaner for best results) Toluene or a multi- pvc/abs type cleaner.

Conditioning the flock and flock chamber.

Mixing the adhesives.

Getting the drying racks ready.

Glue up.
And a few things I know I’m forgetting to write because they have become second nature to me now.
I rag on Hasbro here and there, but for the most part they did well. We all tend to judge flocking by what we saw in print Ad’s and on Saturday morning TV commercials and Joe rarely looked as pristine from K-mart when you got it home, but because the image of perfect flocking was ingrained in our heads from the Ad’s, as kids we never gave it a notice when flock lines were all out of whack. Besides after a day at the beach Joe would be bald anyway and we’d be bugging Mom for a new one or go to Mammoth-Mart and pull a few heads off and steal them basically. Some stores would stack the boxes like bricks in a pyramid shape only a piece of tape sealed the coffin box.

Rubs for the most part were due to dimples in the adhesive. Many using epoxy may have seen this happen to them. You glue up the head and sometimes you’ll see little dimples in the glue, which will spread a bit if left alone. The finished flock will seem to go on fine and after the head is dry that dimple spot will rub away clean leaving a rub. Then there is epoxy blush where one spot feels greasy and the flock will fall out of that spot once the head is dry.

[12ozmouse]

Some are crap some are good, none are F'N hasbro.

Take care
12ozMouse

I know what you're wondering who the F is the rodent king?

[Ray (Flock Man)]

Jun 9, 2010 19:33:46 GMT -5 12ozmouse said:

Some are crap some are good, none are F'N hasbro.

Take care
12ozMouse

I know what you're wondering who the F is the rodent king?

I missed this somehow. All the heads in the picture are Hasbro flocked. The point is that even hasbro flocks had plenty of faults and uneven glue ups, etc. So those that are being hyper-critical of their own reflocks work really don't need to be.

[sparklebudgie]

I can only echo what the other guys are saying, If i am not happy with a head I ask my wife to give me her opinion on my work and she stops me stripping and starting again! Nobody has complained yet if anything they are normally over the moon.

[lookforjoe]

May 12, 2010 5:09:18 GMT -5 Ray (Flock Man) said:

Conditioning the flock and flock chamber.

 

Can you elaborate? Tried to find other references to 'conditioning' , and not coming up with anything.

What does this mean? Sifting the fibers in the trough? Removing them & refreshing? Using a fabric softener sheet to neutralize (saw this in another post of yours). 

I'm in the final stages of setting up my flock station. Just like to be well prepared